Pestsov liked thrashing an argument out to the end, and was not satisfied with Sergey Ivanovitch’s words, especially as he felt the injustice of his view.
佩斯特索夫喜欢把问题争论到底，并不满意谢尔盖·伊万诺维奇的观点，尤其是因为他感到了他观点的不公正。

“I did not mean,” he said over the soup, addressing Alexey Alexandrovitch, “mere density of population alone, but in conjunction with fundamental ideas, and not by means of principles.”
“我不是指，”他在吃汤时对着阿列克谢·阿列克谢耶维奇说，“仅仅是人口密度，而是与基本观念相结合，而不是靠原则。”

“It seems to me,” Alexey Alexandrovitch said languidly, and with no haste, “that that’s the same thing. —
阿列克谢·阿列克谢耶维奇慵懒地说道，“在我看来，那是一样的。” —

In my opinion, influence over another people is only possible to the people which has the higher development, which…”
我认为，对其他民族的影响只有那个更发达的民族才有可能，那个…..

“But that’s just the question,” Pestsov broke in in his bass.
“但问题就是这个，”佩斯特索夫以低沉的嗓音插嘴。

He was always in a hurry to speak, and seemed always to put his whole soul into what he was saying. —
他总是急着开口，并似乎将全副心思都投入到自己说的话中去。 —

“In what are we to make higher development consist? —
“我们要以什么为高等发展？” —

The English, the French, the Germans, which is at the highest stage of development? —
—

Which of them will nationalize the other? —
英国人、法国人、德国人中，谁的发展水平最高？ —

We see the Rhine provinces have been turned French, but the Germans are not at a lower stage!” —
我们看到莱茵省已经变成了法国，但德国人并没有处于较低的阶段！ —

he shouted. “There is another law at work there.”
他大喊道：“那里还有另外一种法则在起作用。”

“I fancy that the greater influence is always on the side of true civilization,” said Alexey Alexandrovitch, slightly lifting his eyebrows.
“我想，更大的影响总是在真正文明的一方。”亚历克谢·亚历山德罗维奇微微挑眉说道。

“But what are we to lay down as the outward signs of true civilization?” said Pestsov.
“但是，我们该如何确定真正文明的外在标志？”佩斯特索夫问道。

“I imagine such signs are generally very well known,” said Alexey Alexandrovitch.
“我想这样的标志通常是众所周知的。”亚历克谢·亚历山德罗维奇说道。

“But are they fully known?” Sergey Ivanovitch put in with a subtle smile. —
“但是它们是否完全被了解呢？”谢尔盖·伊万诺维奇带着微妙的笑容插话道。 —

“It is the accepted view now that real culture must be purely classical; —
“现在公认的观点是真正的文化必须是纯粹的古典主义的； —

but we see most intense disputes on each side of the question, and there is no denying that the opposite camp has strong points in its favor.”
但是我们看到双方对这个问题都存在激烈的争论，不可否认的是，相反阵营有一些有力的观点。”

“You are for classics, Sergey Ivanovitch. Will you take red wine?” said Stepan Arkadyevitch.
“你是偏爱经典的，谢尔盖·伊万诺维奇。你要来点红酒吗？”斯捷潘·阿尔卡季耶维奇问道。

“I am not expressing my own opinion of either form of culture,” Sergey Ivanovitch said, holding out his glass with a smile of condescension, as to a child. —
“我不是在表达我对任何一种文化形式的个人观点。”谢尔盖·伊万诺维奇笑着说道，向孩子一样递出酒杯。 —

“I only say that both sides have strong arguments to support them,” he went on, addressing Alexey Alexandrovitch. —
“我只是说双方都有充分的论据支持他们。”他继续对阿列克谢·亚历山德罗维奇说道。 —

“My sympathies are classical from education, but in this discussion I am personally unable to arrive at a conclusion. —
“我出于教育背景的原因持有经典主义的观点，但在这个讨论中，我个人无法得出结论。” —

I see no distinct grounds for classical studies being given a preeminence over scientific studies.”
“我认为没有明显的理由认为经典学习应该比科学学习更重要。”

“The natural sciences have just as great an educational value,” put in Pestsov. —
“自然科学也同样具有很大的教育价值，”佩斯特索夫插话道。 —

“Take astronomy, take botany, or zoology with its system of general principles.”
“以天文学、植物学或生物学的一般原理为例。”

“I cannot quite agree with that,” responded Alexey Alexandrovitch “It seems to me that one must admit that the very process of studying the forms of language has a peculiarly favorable influence on intellectual development. —
“我不能完全同意那个观点，”阿列克谢·亚历山德罗维奇回答道，“在我看来，必须承认研究语言形式的过程对知识发展有特别有利的影响。” —

Moreover, it cannot be denied that the influence of the classical authors is in the highest degree moral, while, unfortunately, with the study of the natural sciences are associated the false and noxious doctrines which are the curse of our day.”
“而且，不容否认的是，古典作家的影响在最高程度上是道德的，而不幸的是，自然科学研究与当今诅咒的错误和有害学说有关联。”

Sergey Ivanovitch would have said something, but Pestsov interrupted him in his rich bass. —
谢尔盖·伊万诺维奇本可以说些什么，但佩斯特索夫用他富有的低音打断了他。 —

He began warmly contesting the justice of this view. —
他热情地争辩了这个观点的公正性。 —

Sergey Ivanovitch waited serenely to speak, obviously with a convincing reply ready.
谢尔盖·伊万诺维奇平静地等待着发言，显然已经准备好了一个有说服力的回答。

“But,” said Sergey Ivanovitch, smiling subtly, and addressing Karenin, “One must allow that to weigh all the advantages and disadvantages of classical and scientific studies is a difficult task, and the question which form of education was to be preferred would not have been so quickly and conclusively decided if there had not been in favor of classical education, as you expressed it just now, its moral–disons le mot–anti-nihilist influence.”
“但是，”谢尔盖·伊万诺维奇微妙地笑着对卡列宁说道，“我们必须承认，衡量古典和科学研究的优点和缺点是一个困难的任务。如果古典教育没有如你刚才所说的那种道德-也就是反虚无主义的影响力的话，对于哪种教育形式更好的问题就不会这么快而明确地得出结论。”

“Undoubtedly.”
“毫无疑问。”

“If it had not been for the distinctive property of anti-nihilistic influence on the side of classical studies, we should have considered the subject more, have weighed the arguments on both sides,” said Sergey Ivanovitch with a subtle smile, “we should have given elbow-room to both tendencies. —
“如果没有古典研究一方的独特的反虚无主义影响力，我们本应更加考虑这个问题，权衡双方的论据。”谢尔盖·伊万诺维奇微笑着说道，“我们应该给予两种倾向足够的发展空间。” —

But now we know that these little pills of classical learning possess the medicinal property of anti-nihilism, and we boldly prescribe them to our patients. —
现在我们知道这些经典学习的小药片具有反虚无主义的药效，我们大胆地给患者开这个处方。 —

… But what if they had no such medicinal property?” —
但是如果它们没有这样的药效呢？ —

he wound up humorously.
他幽默地收尾。

At Sergey Ivanovitch’s little pills, everyone laughed; —
在谈到Sergey Ivanovitch的这个小药片时，所有人都笑了； —

Turovtsin in especial roared loudly and jovially, glad at last to have found something to laugh at, all he ever looked for in listening to conversation.
特别是Turovtsin大声而愉快地笑着，终于找到了一件可以笑的东西，这正是他在聆听对话时所期望的。

Stepan Arkadyevitch had not made a mistake in inviting Pestsov. —
Stepan Arkadyevitch邀请Pestsov是没有错的。 —

With Pestsov intellectual conversation never flagged for an instant. —
在与Pestsov的智力对话中，从来没有一刻停滞。 —

Directly Sergey Ivanovitch had concluded the conversation with his jest, Pestsov promptly started a new one.
一旦Sergey Ivanovitch用他的笑话结束对话，Pestsov立刻开始新的对话。

“I can’t agree even,” said he, “that the government had that aim. —
“我甚至不能同意，”他说，“政府并没有那个目的。 —

The government obviously is guided by abstract considerations, and remains indifferent to the influence its measures may exercise. —
政府显然是受抽象考虑的指导，而对其措施可能产生的影响保持冷漠。 —

The education of women, for instance, would naturally be regarded as likely to be harmful, but the government opens schools and universities for women.”
举例来说，妇女的教育自然被认为可能会有害，但政府为妇女开设学校和大学。

And the conversation at once passed to the new subject of the education of women.
于是话题立即转向了妇女教育的新议题。

Alexey Alexandrovitch expressed the idea that the education of women is apt to be confounded with the emancipation of women, and that it is only so that it can be considered dangerous.
阿列克谢·亚历山德罗维奇表达了一个观点，即妇女教育容易与妇女解放混淆，只有这样才能被视为危险。

“I consider, on the contrary, that the two questions are inseparably connected together,” said Pestsov; —
“相反，我认为这两个问题是密不可分的,” 佩斯捷夫说道； —

“it is a vicious circle. Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. —
“这是一个恶性循环。由于缺乏教育，妇女被剥夺了权利，而缺乏教育的结果又是因为缺少权利。 —

We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such ages back that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us,” said he.
“我们不能忘记，妇女的服从是如此完全，并且追溯至如此久远的时代，以至于我们常常不愿意承认，这样的差距使她们与我们分隔开来，” 他说。

“You said rights,” said Sergey Ivanovitch, waiting till Pestsov had finished, “meaning the right of sitting on juries, of voting, of presiding at official meetings, the right of entering the civil service, of sitting in parliament…”
“’你说的权利’，谢尔盖·伊万诺维奇说道，等待佩斯特索夫说完，’意味着作为陪审团成员、投票、主持官方会议、进入公职、在议会中发言的权利……‘”

“Undoubtedly.”
“毫无疑问。”

“But if women, as a rare exception, can occupy such positions, it seems to me you are wrong in using the expression ‘rights.’ —
“但是，如果女性，作为罕见的例外，能够担任这些职位，那么我认为你们在使用’权利’这个说法时是错误的。” —

It would be more correct to say duties. Every man will agree that in doing the duty of a juryman, a witness, a telegraph clerk, we feel we are performing duties. —
“更准确的说法应该是责任。每个人都会认同，在担任陪审员、证人、电报职员的责任时，我们都会感到在履行责任。” —

And therefore it would be correct to say that women are seeking duties, and quite legitimately. —
“因此，可以说女性在寻求责任，且是完全合理的寻求。” —

And one can but sympathize with this desire to assist in the general labor of man.”
“我们不禁对女性希望参与到人类的共同劳动中表示同情。”

“Quite so,” Alexey Alexandrovitch assented. —
“完全正确”，亚列克谢·亚历山德罗维奇表示同意。 —

“The question, I imagine, is simply whether they are fitted for such duties.”
“问题在于，她们是否适合承担这种责任。”

“They will most likely be perfectly fitted,” said Stepan Arkadyevitch, “when education has become general among them. We see this…”
“当她们接受到教育普及后，她们很可能完全适合，我们看到…..”

“How about the proverb?” said the prince, who had a long while been intent on the conversation, his little comical eyes twinkling. —
“你们听说过这句谚语吗？”王子问道，他长时间专注于对话，他那双可爱的眼睛眯缝起来。 —

“I can say it before my daughter: her hair is long, because her wit is…”
“在我女儿面前我可以说这句谚语：她的头发长是因为她机智……”

“Just what they thought of the negroes before their emancipation!” said Pestsov angrily.
“就像在黑人解放之前人们对待黑人的想法！”佩斯特索夫愤怒地说道。

“What seems strange to me is that women should seek fresh duties,” said Sergey Ivanovitch, “while we see, unhappily, that men usually try to avoid them.”
“让我感到奇怪的是，女人为什么要寻求新的责任，”谢尔盖·伊凡诺维奇说，“而不幸的是，我们看到男人通常试图逃避责任。”

“Duties are bound up with rights–power, money, honor; —
“责任与权利，权力、金钱、荣誉； —

those are what women are seeking,” said Pestsov.
这就是女人所追求的”，佩斯特索夫说道。

“Just as though I should seek the right to be a wet-nurse and feel injured because women are paid for the work, while no one will take me,” said the old prince.
“就好像我要求做一个奶妈，还感到委屈因为有人为这项工作支付报酬，而没有人要我，”老王子说道。

Turovtsin exploded in a loud roar of laughter and Sergey Ivanovitch regretted that he had not made this comparison. —
图罗夫金大笑起来，谢尔盖·伊凡诺维奇后悔没有做出这个比较。 —

Even Alexey Alexandrovitch smiled.
连亚历克谢·亚历山德罗维奇也笑了。

“Yes, but a man can’t nurse a baby,” said Pestsov, “while a woman…”
“没错，但男人不能哺乳婴儿，”佩斯特索夫说，“而女人……”

“No, there was an Englishman who did suckle his baby on board ship,” said the old prince, feeling this freedom in conversation permissible before his own daughters.
“不，有一个英国人在船上给他的孩子哺乳，”老王子说道，感觉在他自己的女儿面前谈论这个是可以接受的自由。

“There are as many such Englishmen as there would be women officials,” said Sergey Ivanovitch.
“有和官员女性一样多的英国男人，”谢尔盖·伊万诺维奇说道。

“Yes, but what is a girl to do who has no family?” —
“是的，但对于一个没有家庭的女孩来说怎么办呢？” —

put in Stepan Arkadyevitch, thinking of Masha Tchibisova, whom he had had in his mind all along, in sympathizing with Pestsov and supporting him.
斯捷潘·阿尔卡季耶维奇插话说道，他一直在同情佩斯特索夫并支持他时，一直在想着玛莎·奇比索娃。

“If the story of such a girl were thoroughly sifted, you would find she had abandoned a family–her own or a sister’s, where she might have found a woman’s duties,” Darya Alexandrovna broke in unexpectedly in a tone of exasperation, probably suspecting what sort of girl Stepan Arkadyevitch was thinking of.
“如果真正仔细调查这样一个女孩的故事，你会发现她已经抛弃了一个家庭 - 不论是她自己的还是姐姐的，她本来可以在那里找到一个女人的职责，”达利娅·亚历山德罗夫娜突然插嘴，语气愤怒，可能是怀疑斯捷潘·阿尔卡季耶维奇在想哪种女孩。

“But we take our stand on principle as the ideal,” replied Pestsov in his mellow bass. —
“但我们坚持原则作为理想，”佩斯特索夫用他醇厚的低音回答道。 —

“Woman desires to have rights, to be independent, educated. —
“女人渴望拥有权利，独立，受教育。 —

She is oppressed, humiliated by the consciousness of her disabilities.”
“她受到了压迫，因为她意识到自己的能力不足而受到屈辱。”

“And I’m oppressed and humiliated that they won’t engage me at the Foundling,” the old prince said again, to the huge delight of Turovtsin, who in his mirth dropped his asparagus with the thick end in the sauce.
“我感到受到压迫和羞辱，因为他们不愿意与我在孤儿院进行交流。”老王子再次说道，这句话让图罗芙金非常开心，他兴奋地把自己的芦笋，那粗壮的一头浸泡在酱料里。